Meeting documents

Licensing Committee
Tuesday, 15th February, 2005

LICENSING COMMITTEE

 

minutes of the meeting HELD ON 15 FEBRUARY, 2005

 

Present:

Councillor J.A.Jones (Chairperson)

 

 

Councillors John Byast, W.J.Chorlton, J.M.Davies, C.L.Everett,

Bryan Owen, R.L.Owen, R.G.Parry, OBE, W.T.Roberts, H.N.Thomas, E.Schofield, John Williams.

 

In Attendance:

Head of Service (Environmental Services)

Chief Trading Standards Officer (DR)

Principal Trading Standards Officer (DO)

Committee Officer (ATH)

 

 

Apologies:

Councillors J.Arwel Edwards, D.A.Lewis Roberts,  Peter Rogers.

 

 

 

1

DECLARATION OF INTEREST

      

No declaration of interest was received.

      

2

MINUTES

      

The minutes of the previous meeting of the Licensing Committee held on 13 January, 2005, were submitted and confirmed as correct. pages 99 - 100 of this Volume

      

Arising thereon -

      

The Chair referred to issues raised by members at the Committee's previous meeting principally in respect of the role of the Local Member at Appeal Hearings; the need to Declare an Interest and the need to clarify who pays the cost of an appeal to the Magistrate's Court and who would pay any compensation which may be awarded, and he noted that members were informed at the meeting that further guidance regarding these and other matters was awaited and he invited the officers to update members on the latest position.

      

The Principal Trading Standards Officer noted that guidelines in relation to the procedures for appeal hearings had been issued in respect of England only at present and that in the context of the role of the Local Member, those guidelines advised that members should not serve on a licensing appeals panel/committee hearing if the application originates in their ward.Guidelines for Wales will be scrutinised when they are issued.

      

In the ensuing discussion on this particular matter, the viewpoint was expressed that whilst the Local Member might be allowed to make representations at a hearing as an interested party, and that indeed it might be advantageous to the hearing for the Local Member to do so in light of his/her local knowledge, he/she should not be involved in determining the outcome of the application.In response to members' queries the Principal Trading Standards Officer confirmed that a local authority's Licensing Officers are not authorised to make representations regarding an individual application, and should there be no objections raised to a specific application, then the licence will be granted.Licensing Officers will be working closely with the Police and Fire Services, Environmental Health Services, Planning Services and Trading Standards Services who as responsible authorities have the right to make representations regarding an application.

      

Llicensing appeal should be heard by a panel of 3 members or by the full Licensing Committee.The general view was that a panel of 3 (Chair and two other members on a rotational basis) would be sufficient to consider licensing appeals and it was suggested that it would be prudent to appoint a substitute member in the event of one of the 3 agreed panel members being unable to attend a given hearing. It was agreed that this matter and the process for appointing substitutes/reserve members requires further consideration.

      

It was further suggested and supported that information regarding new licence applications and applications for variation of licensing conditions be circulated to all members of the County Council so that they are aware of applications within their own wards.The Principal Trading Standards Officer noted that he was not aware of any reason why that could not happen should it be the County Council's wish.

      

The Chair reminded members that training sessions were planned for the coming weeks and he noted that some of the points raised might well be clarified following training.He suggested therefore that members make a note of any matters requiring explanation and raise them at the meeting of the Committee following the training events.

      

3

NEW REGULATIONS

      

Submitted - A report by the Principal Trading Standards Officer summarising the new Orders and Regulations published by the Government in January, 2005 governing licensing applications, procedures, hearings and fees.

      

Reference was made to the Licensing Act 2003 (Transitional conversions fees) Order 2005 and the Licensing Act 2003 (Fees) Regulations 2005 and to the Government's intended review of fees  and whether they are sufficient to cover the licensing authority's costs, and it was asked should the case be that the fees charged for applications do not cover the licensing authority's costs, would the Government then award additional grant aid to the authority.The Principal Trading Standards Officer noted in response that it was more likely that the Government would adjust fee levels to reflect costs meaning that fees could be adjusted downwards as well as upwards.

      

Resolved to note the information regarding recent Regulations made under the Licensing Act, 2003.

      
 

4

PROCEDURE FOR SUBMITTING AN APPLICATION
 

      
 

Submitted - A report by the Principal Trading Standards Officer outlining the procedure to be followed by applicants when submitting an application under the Licensing Act, 2003.
 

      
 

The Principal Trading Standards Officer referred to the main considerations as follows:
 

      
 

4.1

The licensing system will promote four key licensing objectives, viz.
 

      
 

Ÿ     prevention of crime and disorder;
 

Ÿ     public safety;
 

Ÿ     prevention of public nuisance;
 

Ÿ     protection of children from harm.
 

      
 

The Council will have to grant the licence unless it conflicts with one of the above objectives.It may impose conditions that promote the licensing conditions, e.g. noise control measures.
 

4.2     Under the new system, there will be four types of licence -
 

      
 

i.     a premises licence will be required where any licensable activities are going to take place;
 

ii.     a personal licence will be required by anyone wanting to allow the sale of alcohol as part of their business;
 

iii.     a club premises certificate which will be required for private clubs;
 

iv.     a temporary event notice for events with a capacity of under 500 and not exceeding 96 hours duration.
 

4.3     Existing licence holders will be given "grandfather rights" to transfer to a new licence and will be able to apply for new licences from the 1st appointed day, a date set by the Government as 7 February, 2005 and lasting until 6 August, 2005, but they will not become effective until the 2 appointed day, a date not yet set by the Government but likely to be November, 2005. Current holders of Justices Licences will be able to apply for a personal licence without the need to provide evidence of a criminal record or of a licensing qualification, because they have already been judged by the Licensing Justices to be "fit and proper" persons to sell alcohol.
 

4.4     All existing alcohol, public entertainment, theatre, cinema and late night refreshment house licences can be converted, subject to current conditions and restrictions to premises licences.Approvals in these circumstances are virtually automatic under the grandfather rights process with only the Police able to make representations on the basis of crime prevention.
 

4.5     In addition to transitional arrangements, applications may also be received for variations or new applications.Under these circumstances, the applicant will have to advertise their applications both on the premises and in a local newspaper within 5 days.In addition to the responsible authorities which include the police, fire, and certain council departments, interested parties, including persons living and businesses operating in the vicinity of the premises, resident and trade associations may make representations to the council about the granting of or a change in the licence.They can also seek a review of the licence.Provided the representations are not frivolous or vexatious, they will be considered by the Licensing Committee/panel.Applications under the Act are subject to strict statutory time limits.
 

4.6     During the transitional period between the 7 February, 2005 and the second appointed day (likely to be November, 2005), the new arrangements will run in conjunction with the present system.Any new applications wishing to have an immediate licence to sell alcohol or for public entertainment will therefore have to apply for a licence under the current schemes.
 

      
 

Questions were raised in relation to the matter of door supervisors at clubs and entertainment premises etc. and whether they are required to be licensed, and whether an individual from outside the county can apply to stage a function on the Island.It was also queried whether it would be helpful for members to receive guidance regarding what kind of conditions the Licensing Committee/Panel is able to impose.
 

      
 

The Principal Trading Standards Officer noted in clarification of the above points that the system for licensing door supervisors has been transferred to the Security Industries Association and is not a matter for the Council.A person wishing to stage a temporary event within the county may apply for a temporary event notice subject to representations being made which would then be heard by the Licensing Committee/Panel.As regards conditions, the Licensing Act is very specific on this point and stipulates that blanket conditions cannot be imposed on all establishments and that each application must be considered individually and on its own merits.
 

      
 

Resolved to note the procedure to be followed by applicants when submitting an application under the Licensing Act, 2003.
 

      
 

5

LICENSING OBJECTIVES
 

      
 

Submitted -  A report by the Principal Trading Standards Officer setting out the four licensing objectives as referred to under clause 4.1 in the previous item.
 

      
 

The Principal Trading Standards Officer noted that the four licensing objectives comprise the basis on which the licensing authority determines what is in the overall public interest when carrying out its functions.A licensing authority may only restrict licensable activities where it is necessary for the promotion of the licensing objectives, and each objective is of equal importance.
 

      
 

Any representations about the granting of a licence or grounds for a review of an existing licence should relate to the promotion of the licensing objectives - there are no other licensing objectives, so the four objectives are of paramount consideration at all times.
 

      
 

When applying for a premises licence, the applicant must submit an operating schedule that includes a statement of the steps he/she proposes to take to promote the licensing objectives.
 

      
 

The licensing objectives also establish the tests against which a licensing authority carries out its duties for the new licensing regime.They aim to ensure that everybody involved with the regime is focused on common goals essential to the fair balance of differing interests and the well being of communities in relation to licensable activities.
 

      
 

Resolved to note the four Licensing Objectives under the Licensing Act, 2003.
 

      
 

6

TRAINING
 

      
 

Submitted - A report by the Principal Trading Standards Officer outlining proposed training events for members under the Licensing Act, 2003.
 

      
 

The Principal Trading Standards Officer informed members that a specific training course aimed at members of the Licensing Committee had been arranged for 11 March, 2005.The event would be led by an external trainer who will be a leading expert in the field.The training will concentrate on the roles required of members of the Committee as well as the procedures and protocols required.A further in-house training session will be held on the morning of the 18 March, 2005 at which issues already covered will be reviewed and a mock hearing staged to enable members to participate in a hearing of their own.This is intended to allow members to reflect on their experience and to allow informed debate on issues during the next meeting of the Committee to be held on the afternoon of the 18 March, 2005 following the morning's training session.
 

      
 

Resolved to note the proposed training events for members under the Licensing Act scheduled for March, 2005.
 

      
 

7

PROPOSED DATES OF HEARINGS
 

      
 

Submitted and noted - The following provisional dates reserved for any licensing hearings -
 

      
 

Tuesday, 5 April, 2005; Wednesday, 20 April, 2005; Tuesday, 10 May, 2005; Tuesday, 24 May, 2005; Tuesday, 7 June, 2005; Tuesday, 21 June, 2005.
 

      
 

Observations were made in respect of the difficulties often encountered in arranging meetings particularly with regard to arranging a venue and it was noted that the matter needs to be addressed and a system set up whereby the Council's schedule of meetings and committee rooms is co-ordinated from one central point.
 

      
 

Reference was made to the fees to be charged for applications and whether these cover the cost of members' training, and it was noted that training costs under the Licensing Act should not be an added expense to the Authority.It was further suggested that the Authority's Language Policy be applicable to proceedings under the Licensing Act, and that applicants be given the opportunity to use their preferred language, and it was queried whether the costs of providing a translation service are covered by the fees.These points were raised as matters for discussion for the Committee's next meeting following the two scheduled training events.
 

      
 

8

DATE OF NEXT MEETING
 

      
 

It was noted that the next meeting of the Licensing Committee will be held at 2:00 p.m. on Friday, 18 March, 2005.
 

      
 

          Councillor John Arthur Jones
 

     Chair