Meeting documents

LICENSING COMMITTEE

minutes of the meeting HELD ON 5 APRIL, 2005

     No declaration of interest was received.

     Councillor E.Schofield raised as a point of procedure the matter of the allocation of a seat on this Committee to Councillor J.Arthur Jones by the Anglesey Forward (Independent) Group, and noted that he understood that according to law, a political group did not have the authority to allocate a seat on a committee to an unaffiliated member.It was up to the Council to make arrangements to accommodate unaffiliated members in political balance arrangements and not by way of an individual political group relinquishing an entitled seat to an unaffiliated member. Since the Committee was likely to be undertaking functions of a legal nature in future, its membership must be compl0iant.Councillor Schofield emphasised that raising this matter should not be taken as criticism of the present incumbent as Chairman of the Committee, as the Chairmanship in his view was of a very high standard, but rather the intention was to correct an anomaly.He requested that the Council be given clear guidance on this matter to ensure that the Committee operates within the law.He suggested that in the meantime, the Committee continue to proceed as normal.

     The Managing Director acknowledged that the point raised by Councillor Schofield was a valid one, and he informed members that the Council was in discussion with officers from the Welsh Assembly Government in respect of issues relating to political balance generally including the allocation of seats to unaffiliated members.Hitherto, the Welsh Assembly Government has offered an opinion on the matter, but would not issue definitive advice.The Council will be seeking further clarification of this matter with the Assembly Government and will be presenting the guidance in due course.He noted that he was satisfied that it was appropriate for the Committee to proceed with its business until that time whilst it was engaged in formulating policy and protocols; however he did advise that should the need for a licensing hearing arise, the Chair should not deal with it in case his participation gave rise to challenge.

     Resolved that the Licensing Committee proceed with the business of formulating policy and protocols meantime until such time as the allocation of seats to unaffiliated members be further considered by the County Council following the Annual Meeting in May, 2005.

     The minutes of the previous meeting of the Licensing Committee held on 15 February, 2005 were submitted and confirmed as correct.  Council Volume3 March 2005, pages 159 - 162

     The Principal Trading Standards Officer updated the Committee on the current position with regard to the Licensing Act.

     The Principal Trading Standards Officer informed the Committee that very few licensing applications have been received by the Department even though preparations for their receipt have been made since 7 February, 2005.Those applications that have been submitted relate primarily to personal licences.The Department has circulated information packs detailing the procedure and timescale for the submission of applications to known traders and it has also made use of both in-house records relating to traders and those held by the Justice's Clerks in Caernarfon, Gwynedd to disseminate information regarding the new licensing arrangements. However, the response has been disappointing and despite numerous enquiries, the rate of follow-up applications has been poor.

     In response to a suggestion that the Licensing Department redouble its publicity efforts in order to ensure that all relevant businesses are aware of the new arrangements and what is required of them, the Principal Trading Standards Officer noted that the Department would be re-evaluating the situation later on in the summer with a view to identifying and addressing any gaps prior to the deadline for the submission of applications on 6 August, 2005.

     Resolved to note the current position with regard to the Licensing Act and to thank the Principal Trading Standards Officer for the information.

     Submitted - A report by the Principal Trading Standards Officer outlining the main issues which the Committee need to resolve upon, prior to formulating procedures on how it will manage its business.

     The Principal Trading Standards Office reminded members that under the new Licensing Act 2003, the Council had established a Licensing Committee of 15 members the prime purpose of which is to exercise all the Council's functions under the 2003 Act.Licensing applications will be dealt with either by Licensing Officers within the delegations as approved by full Council, or by the Licensing Committee, or sub-committee consisting of 3 members.Regulations have been made which deal with applications for licenses and variations including the manner in which hearings are conducted. The Licensing Act 2003 (Hearings) Regulations 2005 set out the arrangements to be followed in relation to hearings held under the Act by the Council.

     In preparation for the Act, members will have had several opportunities to receive training as well experiencing the less formal mock hearing event staged immediately prior to this meeting.These events will have raised several issues as to how the Committee will operate.In order to ensure that applications and hearings are conducted in an open and consistent manner, the process itself needs to be formally recorded and documented.This will allow members, applicants and other participants to be fully informed of the process beforehand.For this to happen, certain decisions need to be made as follows:

     In discussing this issue, members expressed the view that whilst hearings conducted by the full Committee of 15 members might prove unwieldy, a sub-committee of 3 selected on rotational basis might afford members only infrequent opportunity to gain experience of hearings, and it was emphasised that it was important to utilise the knowledge and skills acquired by all 15 members during the training process.It was suggested that in the event that a sub-committee of 3 members is endorsed, the Chair or Vice-Chair of the Committee should be a standing member of the sub-committee in order to develop their skills and to ensure that the sub-committee sitting for each hearing has a core of experience upon which the other two members selected may draw.

     Following deliberation, it was resolved that hearings will be heard by a sub-committee of 3 members to include the Chair or Vice-Chair of the Licensing Committee together with 2 other members of the Committee to be selected on a rotational basis.

     There was consensus amongst members that a member of the Committee should not serve on a Sub-Committee that will consider an application, if the application originates within his/her ward, and it was suggested that the rotational mechanism bypasses a member if the application to be heard originates within that member's ward.However, there was a divergence of opinion as to whether it would be appropriate for a member of the Committee to attend and make representations at a hearing in the capacity of Local Member - whilst on the one hand the view was expressed that it is right and proper for a local member to make representations on behalf of electors within his ward and that this right should not be prejudiced by membership of the Licensing Committee, it was noted on the other hand that participation in a licensing hearing by a member of the Licensing Committee by way of making representations is inadvisable as it can give rise to the perception of bias, and may lead to a challenge to the eventual decision.It would be wise for the Committee to endeavour to eliminate as far as possible any grounds for appeal on the basis of procedural flaws, including participation in hearings by a member of the Licensing Committee in the capacity of Local Member.

     The Legal Services Manager informed members that to participate in a hearing, then relevant representations have to have been submitted beforehand by that party.The regulations allow for parties at a hearing to have a representative, or to have assistance with putting forward their case, and this assistance can be via the Local Member.It is then a matter for the Local Member if he/she is also a member of the Licensing Committee to decide, taking into account all considerations including personal interest and the requirements of the Code of Conduct, whether or not to participate in the hearing.

     Following extensive deliberation on this matter, it was resolved -

     Following deliberation, it was resolved that imposing time limits on submissions is a matter of discretion for the Chair of the Sub-Committee on the day of the hearing taking into account the nature of the hearing to be conducted.

     Following deliberation it was resolved that hearings will consist of a report from the Licensing Officer, Relevant Authorities that are making representations, other interested parties making relevant representations, and finally, the applicant. Also that cross-examination by parties is only permitted by the Chair in those instances where it is considered necessary to clarify an issue or to elicit further information.

It was noted subsequent to the above decisions, that a draft set of procedures will now be prepared which will outline the management of hearings by the Licensing Committee.This will be put before the Committee for approval by the next meeting.

     J.Arthur Jones

            Chair