Meeting documents

Standards Committee
Thursday, 27th November, 2003

Standards Committee

Minutes of the meeting held on 27 November 2003

 

PRESENT:

 

Dr Gwyneth Roberts (Chair)

 

Representing Ynys Môn County Council

Councillor R L Owen

Councillor G Allan Roberts

 

Lay Members

Dr John Griffiths

Mr Gwynfor Jones

Dr John Popplewell

 

Representing Town & Community Councils

Mrs Ceri Thomas

 

 

 

IN ATTENDANCE:

 

Monitoring Officer (JO)

Committee Officer (JMA)

 

 

 

APOLOGIES:

 

Councillor Trefor Lloyd Hughes

Mr J Cotterell

 

1

DECLARATION OF INTEREST

 

No declaration of interest was made by either a Member or Officer in respect of any item on the Agenda.

 

2

MINUTES

 

Minutes of the meeting of this Committee held on 19th August 2003 were submitted and accepted as a true record of the meeting.

pages 21 - 23 of this Volume

 

3

CONSULTATION ON THE POWERS AND JURISDICTION OF THE PUBLIC SERVICES OMBUDSMAN FOR WALES

     

A report by the Monitoring Officer was submitted together with a consultation  document from the Welsh Assembly Government regarding the Powers and Jurisdiction of the Public Services Ombudsman in Wales.

 

Both Parliament and the Welsh Assembly Government have approved the appointment of a Public Service Ombudsman to replace the three current offices of :

 

ž

Welsh Administration Ombudsman;

ž

Health Service Commissioner for Wales and

ž

Commissioner for Local Administration in Wales.

 

 

The National Assembly has published a consultation document seeking responses to proposals for the powers and jurisdiction of the new role and requesting answers to eleven questions as well as inviting any further relevant comments on the issue.

 

 

 

The Committee debated the questions and agreed as follows:-

 

 

 

A.

Are there any public bodies in existence in Wales, not currently subject to investigation by the Welsh Administration Ombudsman ("WAO") , the Health Service Commissioner for Wales ("HSCW") or the Commissioner for Local Administration in Wales ("CLAW") which should be brought within the scope of  the new jurisdiction when it is established?

 

 

 

 

 

The bodies listed on Page 19 (Annex B) and those listed on Page 20 (3) should be brought within the scope of the new jurisdiction when it is established. The Committee took the view that every body dealing with public money and/or provide a public service should be included. This should encompass voluntary, private, or any other, organisations which carry out public functions as  agent/contractor for a public body.

 

 

 

B.

In relation to new bodies created in the future, should any limits continue to be placed on the types of public body that can be brought within jurisdiction?

 

 

 

Responded to under Question A above.  

 

 

 

A.

Are the various limitations and restrictions on the current Ombudsmen's jurisdictions, as summarised in Annex C, still appropriate? Should any of them be  omitted from legislation, establishing the new Ombudsman's office? Are there any new restrictions or limitations which it would be appropriate to introduce?

 

 

 

Annex C2 : Although the Ombudsmen cannot at present investigate the merits of a decision, there may be an argument for including this possibility within the new Ombudsman's jurisdiction where the decision complained about has resulted in an absurdity, or is contrary to the principles of proportionality, or the principle of legitimate expectation. Equally, where a complainant's inability to afford professional legal representation before a tribunal could give rise to an injustice because the respondent

 

is able to employ a representative, the new Ombudsman should be able, depending upon the subject matter under consideration, to accept such complaints. Given the increased restriction on the availability of Legal Aid provision, the same principle, with specified restrictions as to subject matter, should apply in relation to proceedings in a  court of law.

 

 

 

B.

Do you agree that the new Ombudsman's jurisdiction should be focused on complaints of maladministration or operational failures in provision of a  service by a public body, and thus be framed in a way that precludes investigations into discretionary policy decisions about the use of resources?

 

 

 

The Committee took the view that the Ombudsman should be able to investigate decisions where policy has been applied rigidly, without any consideration of the merits of the individual case and contrary to the legal role concerning the fettering of discretion.

 

 

 

C.

Are there any other categories of decisions based on professional judgement (in addition to those based on clinical judgement) which it would be appropriate to allow the new Ombudsman to investigate; or does "maladministration" provide sufficient flexibility to permit investigation in appropriate cases?

 

 

 

See above.  

 

 

 

D.

Do you agree that the new Ombudsman should not, as a matter of law, accept oral complaints, but that legislation should enable the Ombudsman to assist potential complaints as necessary to prepare their complaints in due form? Do you agree that complaints submitted to the Ombudsman be e-mail should be acceptable?

 

 

 

The Committee was of the opinion that, in general, oral complaints should not be accepted, but that the Ombudsman should have discretion to accept these in exceptional circumstances where assistance to prepare the complaint in due form was clearly needed by the complainant. Complaints submitted by e-mail should be accepted.

 

E.

Do you agree that any body subject to investigation by the new Ombudsman should, subject to appropriate conditions, be able to refer a complaint relating to action taken by, or on behalf of, the body to the Ombudsman for investigation? If you agree, what do you think should be the conditions or restrictions which should be placed on exercise of this power?

 

 

 

No - it is for individual complainants to submit a complaint. It should not be open to a "body" to do so.

 

 

 

F.

Do you agree that the new Ombudsman should be given a power equivalent to what is available to CLAW now, to issue "advice and guidance about good administrative practice" to public bodies within jurisdiction? Are there any limits or procedural requirements which you consider should be placed on the exercise of this power?

 

 

 

Yes - the Ombudsman should be given a power to issue "advice and guidance about good administrative practice" to public bodies within jurisdiction.

 

 

 

There are no limits or procedural requirements which the Committee consider should be placed on the exercise of this power. 

 

 

 

G.

Do you agree

 

 

 

i.

that the new Ombudsman should not normally accept a complaint for investigation unless the complainant has exhausted the internal complaints procedure of the body being complained about, but   

 

 

 

ii.

should have discretion to do so if it would be unreasonable in the  particular circumstances to expect the complainant to have followed those procedures?

 

 

 

The Committee agreed that the Ombudsman should have discretion to accept a complaint if it would be unreasonable in the particular circumstances to expect the complainant to have followed the internal complaints procedure of the body being complained about.

 

 

 

A.

Do you agree that the new Ombudsman should be able to facilitate the resolution of complaints between complainants and public bodies by any appropriate means, and to operate without the need in every case to produce a formal report?

 

 

 

The Committee agreed with the proviso that reasons were given for the decision.           

 

 

 

B.

Do you agree that, in relation to redress for individuals, the legislation should make similar provision as now, rather than conferring additional powers on the new Ombudsman either to enforce his recommendations through the courts or impose sanctions on public bodies which fail to act in accordance with them?

 

 

 

The Committee agreed that the Ombudsman's decisions should be binding with the right to impose sanctions, in which case a challenge against the  decision should be possible through the courts.

 

 

 

4

TRAINING FOR THE STANDARDS COMMITTEE

 

 

 

 

 

A report by the Monitoring Officer was submitted which provided information on future Training Arrangements for the Committee.  

 

 

 

The Monitoring Officer reported she, together with the Council's Training and Development Manager, would select the most suitable course providers and  subsequently approach other authorities with a view to arranging joint training.

 

 

 

Whilst elected Members drew attention to the forthcoming elections for the County Council, it was felt that the training would be beneficial to prepare Members of the Committee to deal with any complaint referred to it.

 

 

 

Members were requested to provide the Training and Development Manager with details of their availability over the new few months so that a convenient date can be arranged.

 

 

 

DR.GWYNETH ROBERTS

 

                CHAIR