Meeting documents

1

DECLARATION OF INTEREST

There was no declaration of interest by a Member or Officer.

2

APPLICATIONS FOR DISPENSATION

The Chair invited the Monitoring Officer to address the meeting.  The Monitoring Officer drew attention to the enclosures attached to her report which was submitted as part of the Agenda for the meeting.  She referred to the relevant parts of the Code of Conduct which Members should bear in mind : -

Part 3 - Interest

10(1) - You must in all matters consider whether you have a personal interest, and whether this code requires you to disclose that interest.

2. You must regard yourself as having a personal interest in any business of your authority if :-

“a member of the public might reasonable perceive a conflict between your role in taking a decision upon that business, on behalf of your authority as a whole and your role in representing the interests of constituents in your ward or electoral division and ;

your well being or financial position, or that of a person with whom you live, or any person with whom you have a close personal association.”

The Monitoring Officer reported that Members have a Dual Role in that they are not only the Local Member but also Members of the Executive and therefore the decision makers.  It may not always be necessary to seek a dispensation as this would depend on the significance of the decision to be taken.  

However, the Interest is also Prejudicial as Clause 12(1) of the Code states :-

Subject to sub-paragraph (2) below, where you have a personal interest in any business of your authority, you also have a prejudicial interest in that business if the interest is one which a member of the public with knowledge of the relevant facts would reasonably regard as so significant that it is likely to prejudice your judgement of the public interest.

The Monitoring Officer drew attention to a copy of the Dispensation Regulations also included as part of the Agenda.  This sets out the limited grounds on which the Standards Committee can grant dispensations to Members.  The Committee has Statutory Powers to grant dispensations if one or more of the listed grounds is established.  A dispensation is where a Member has both a Personal and Prejudicial Interest and where the Standards Committee is satisfied that a Statutory Ground exists that effectively expunges the prejudicial element of the interest so that the Member still has the interest, is required to disclosure it, but the element of prejudice has been removed by the Standards Committee being satisfied that one or more of the Grounds has been made out.

The Monitoring Officer quoted the following extract from the Statutory Ground :

“2(b) no fewer than half of the members or a leader of the cabinet executive of the relevant authority by which the business is to be considered has an interest which relates to that business and either paragraph (d) or (e) applies.”

In this instance, the situation is a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion, and not one which the Standards Committee Members needs to deliberate i.e. at least half of the Executive is conflicted on this issue.  The first ground of 2(b) is therefore made out.  However, that ground as a basis for dispensation comes with a caveat that one or two additional grounds needs to be identified.  Ground (d) is applicable and is key to the decision which the Committee was being asked to make thus :-

“2(d) the nature of the member’s interest is such that the member’s participation in the business to which the interest relates would not damage public confidence in the conduct of the relevant authority’s business.”

The Committee’s deliberations would therefore be restricted to the issue of public confidence.

Members were informed that two applications would be heard at this meeting namely an application by Councillor Bob Parry OBE and Councillor Bryan Owen.  She noted that Councillor Bob Parry OBE is a local member and has a grandson at one of the school which has been identified under the Primary Schools Rationalisation Programme.  Councillor Owen is not however a local member in respect of a particular schools identified under the Rationalisation Programme, but his wife is a supply teacher at these particular schools.

Within her report the Monitoring Officer had included a number of factors which should be taken into account when reaching a decision including the fact that :-

‘There will be an opportunity to ask questions of the Applicants concerning their decision, subject to dispensation, to represent the interests of the County as a whole (as part of the Executive) rather than just the interests of their single ward.’

She also reminded the Committee that the Members’ Code of Conduct provides an automatic dispensation for all those Members who are school governors to take part in discussion and voting in matters concerning their schools.  There are similarities between that situation and a situation where a Member is a Local Member and the decision maker.  She suggested that the relationship between a School Governor and their School is closer than between a Member and the whole of their Ward and that this was a relevant factor to bear in mind in the decision making process.  

The Monitoring Officer noted that the Committee received an overview of the School Rationalisation process by Mr. Geraint Elis, the Strategic Co-Ordinator (Education) at the previous meeting.  

The Chair invited the first applicant to address the meeting.  He indicated that both cases would be heard independently after which time the Committee would retire to private session and a separate decision announced in respect of each application.

COUNCILLOR BOB PARRY OBE

Councillor Parry introduced himself as the Deputy Leader of the Council and a Member of the Executive and had the Portfolio’s of Planning and Smallholdings.  He has been a Councillor for over 30 years.  He is the Local Member for the Bryngwran and Gwalchmai Wards and is a Governor at both the local schools since reorganisation of Local Government in 1996.  The Bryngwran Primary School is under consideration in the current Schools Rationalisation Programme.  Additionally he noted that he had a further personal interest in that his grandson attends Bryngwran Primary School in the afternoons. He assured the Members of the Standards Committee that he would represent the Council’s position and represent the County of Anglesey as a whole.

Mrs. Pamela Moore asked Councillor Parry how he would deal with the issue as of the schools rationalisation programme as a whole since he was a local member for one of the schools under consideration.  

Councillor Parry responded that as a Member of the Executive he is there to consider the whole Island. The Public Interest Report has stated that we do have to be careful that we do represent all of the Island and not our own individual patch.  We all love our own little patch but we are here to make a decision for the County and for the best education possible for the children on Anglesey.  

Mrs. Moore asked how he would feel when he has to go back to his own ward.  Councillor Parry responded that probably it would be the second time he would have to back to his ward, if there was a decision to close the school, I would have to go back and say that.  I did make a decision on contentious issue in his ward a few years ago in respect of the Incinerator in Gwalchmai.  He had to go back to his electorate why the decision was taken to approve the incinerator and what benefit it would bring to the Island.

Mr. R.H. Gray Morris asked did he find it difficult to explain to your electorate the decisions you have taken.    Councillor Parry responded that he has spoken to parents; at the end of the day it is not the school that counts, it is the education of the children; whether it is a small school or a big school.  A small school would have difficulties getting a football team or choir, it does not give that child the best education possible.  At the end of the day he still emphasised it is the education of the children of Anglesey that is important.  

Ms. Susan Morris asked what effect would it have on his family if Bryngwran Primary School was to close.

Councillor Parry said that his grandson is not 4 years old until December and at present only attends the nursery at the school in the afternoon.  He noted that the family live the same distance from two other schools namely Gwalchmai and Pencarnisiog Primary Schools with other children from the family attending these schools.

Ms. Morris asked that Councillor Parry had a conflict of interest in the past; what thought process did he go through to focus his mind on the Island as a whole in the interest of his electorate.  

Councillor Parry responded that as he has been a Councillor for 30 years; his tendencies is always to look at the whole Island.

The Chair referred to a decision by the previous administration in that Aberffraw and Llanddeusant were earmarked for closure and asked for his response to this.

Councillor Parry responded that he was not a Member of the Executive when that decision had been taken.  He said that they were looking at one catchment area at the time and considered that an Island wide deliberations should take place on the schools rationalisation programme.

The Chair questioned how important did Councillor Parry feel in decision making process.

Councillor Parry said that as a Councillor it is very important; Councillors have been elected by the people whether to represent our area and the whole of the Island.  He stated that he was never shied away from making a decision.

COUNCILLOR BRYAN OWEN

Councillor Owen introduced himself as a Member of the Executive with the Portfolio for Economic Development.  He stated that he was a School Governor at Ysgol y Bont, Llangefni and Ysgol Y Graig Primary School, Llangefni.  He has been a Member of the County Council for 5 years.  He noted that he has sought dispensation as his wife is occasionally employed as a supply teacher at two to the primary schools under consideration in the current Schools Rationalisation Programme.  They are Ysgol Bodorgan and Ysgol Llandrygarn.  He stated that his wife, this year, has worked 32 days at Bodorgan Primary School, 61/2 days at Capel Coch Primary School and 2 days at Rhosneigr Primary School.  He stated that his wife said that she would not send a child to a school with only 10 children attending.

In response to a question by Ms. Susan Mooris, Councillor Owen said he was not a Member of the Executive when the decision regarding Aberffraw and Bodorgan had been made and he had not been part of the decision making process.  However, he stated that the Island should be looked at as a whole rather than dealing with individual catchment areas and the professional advice afforded to the Executive should be listened to. Councillor Owen further expressed that his wife undertakes supply teaching at Bodorgan only as a favour to the school; a number of other schools have asked her to do supply teaching work but she has refused.  

Ms. Susan Mooris questioned what affect it would have on the famil y if Bodorgan School was to close.

Councillor Owen responded that financially it would not have an effect at all; she was a Deputy Head at Bodorgan School and the family was not dependend on her salary.  

The Chair questioned whether the public would consider that Councillor Owen’ wife would be benefiting financilly. Councillor Owen appreciated the Chair’s comment.  The Chair questioned how many years Mrs. Owen had worked.  Councillor Owen responded that his wife started teaching when she was 23 years old and she retired at the age of 50.  The Chair noted that she therefore had sufficient years of service for a full pension.   The Chair commented that Mrs. Owen therefore does  work as a favour basis.  Councillor Owen noted that it is now more of a hobby than a career for his wife.  

The Chair further questioned was he influence by his wife beliefs that she would not be happy sending a child to a school with 10 children.  

Councillor Owen responded that possibly he was of the same opinion as his wife that she would not send a child to a school with only 10 children.  No football, basketball or hockey team could be achieved at a school with 10 children.  He considered that it would not be fair for a child to attend a school with a limited number of children.  The Chair further stated that the Community might want to keep a small school open as maybe the village shop was closed and the school was the last place the community could use.  Councillor Owen responded that be would like the school, if a decision was to close, to be afforded to the community.  However, he stated that the Executive would be foolish to ignore the professional advice afforded to them and the best education of children was the utmost importance to him.

Both applicants apologised to the Committee that they were unable to stay to hear the decision of the Committee as they had previous engagements. The Monitoring Officer responded that the decision would be afforded in writing to the applicants.

Having listened to the representations from the two applicants, the Chair announced that the Standards Committee would retire to private session to consider its decision.

RESOLVED that -

The Committee had unanimously agreed that Pursuant to paragraphs 2(f), (g) (i) of Statutory Instrument 2001 No. 2279 (W169) Local Government Wales, The Standards Committee (Grant of Dispensations) (Wales) Regulations 2001, a Dispensation was granted to Councillor Bryan Owen and Councillor Bob Parry OBE.  The dispensation had been extended to include any discussion, whether it be informal or formal and including any meeting, discussion, telephone call or e-mail which may be necessary for the purpose of discussing and/or progressing the Rationalisation Programme to which the two applications relate.  The Chair further announced that the dispensation would be in force for the duration of the School Rationalisation Process therefore the dispensation was not time bound.

MR. J. COTTERELL

CHAIR